The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
***
>> PETER BRUCK: Can I ask the technical support to put the slides in. Hello, good evening, in Kyoto. Because we are on Zoom, a number of different countries, Chile, to Lebanon to Austria and also to a number of other different places around the world. My name is Peter Bruck, and I'm absolutely delighted that you are here.
This session is a session where we think about things bottom-up. Not top-down. We had a session before on technology frameworks, very much on policy issues, on how basically the global systems of technology economy and also digital solutions work. What we want to do this morning is show you how best practice examples are basically dealing with digital divides. Digital divides is something which is really key to the overall agenda of the United Nations that technology, computerization, digitization should lead to a fair, just and equitable society. Can I have the slides, please?
I am having the privilege to organise and promote the world summit awards. To my left here is Osama Masang. He looked much younger when he started, right?
>> Yes.
>> PETER BRUCK: And here will be talking with us on a number of different issues.
This session is a little different than other sessions, when we talk about turning United Nations information targets and SDGs into action, it needs you, everybody in this room. This is not something which we want to do abstract. But it is you who are actually the actors. And what we will do from the World Summit Awards is give you examples of how people do things. Like for instance Gloria has done in Tanzania with a project called Africa Queens. Gloria, will you tell us about this afterwards?
>> Gloria: Yes.
>> PETER BRUCK: She will, so I'm not disappointing anybody here.
What we have done the last 20 years in this context of IGF world summit and information society is basically looking at this issue of how we can, by sharing examples get each other to learn better of what we actually can do, okay? That has an advantage. If you are only theorizing about systems we will never change the systems very quickly. We need to have evolution, we need to have governments, we need to have taxation policies, we need to have an upheaval, technology awards, whatever. But every one of us can do something concretely in their community, a local solution. And to see how they are bridging digital divides. And that is actually what WSA has done.
For 20 years we have selected this on a global scale but very much within the United Nations principle. When you have this brochure, which we gave you here, it's a brochure which details what WSA does. But also it details the different kind of solutions which we will present today. 1679 solutions from over 180 Member States. The impact from WSA is something which you can measure, not just in figures here, but in what you will do after this session and to what you will be encouraged to doing.
We are addressing a number of different kind of digital divides. For instance, accessibility gap, the gender gaps, obviously. The climate issues and also various kind of different ways of looking how participation works in governments and so on.
We have the chairs a little differently arranged here. So if you want to talk and contribute, just sit on a Chair and grab the microphone here, this should be a fish bowl session, but the arrangement here is a little bit frontal, it's a little bit aggressive, it's not very inclusive or communicative. But let's think of this as peing a virtual inner circle and you are happy and delighted and invited, Malak Yacout, MAtias Rojas, Tiffany Tong and Gloria Manoi.
Malak, are you in Beirut, are you up or sleeping? Malak? Is she online? She is not here, okay. Is Matias Rojas here from Chile, online participation?
>> Yes, Peter. Hello, I don't know if you can hear me.
>> PETER BRUCK: We can hear you and we can see you, it's wonderful. What is the time in your space, you are from Santiago, right?
>> Yes, it's nearly 11:00 p.m. on a Saturday night. I'm enthusiastic to have a talked to.
>> PETER BRUCK: Okay. You have five minutes to detail us here there is about 40 people here in this room. Many young people here. They want to know what they can learn from you, in terms of what social lab is doing to address the digital divide. And which gaps do you close? Please go ahead.
>> MATIAS: Thank you, Peter. Thank you everybody in the room. Social lab is social enterprise, Latin America social enterprise, where we have built an open innovation platform. So through collective intelligence, digital collective intelligence, we recruit social innovators, social entrepreneurs that can provide products services to different social and environmental issues.
Our platform now has more than 1.5 million creators, users but we call them creators. They propose the ideas, not only, not just ideas but also more developed products and services that total right now 85,000 solutions in the last ten years. So it's people that have the talent and capabilities to generate these solutions, in the shape of social startups. So that is where we are based in. What we call triple impact. Not only social environmental but also economic. Meaning this has to be economically sustainable enterprise. What are we doing regarding the digital divides? We believe that talent is equally distributed in populations around the world. But not opportunities, not resources. For people that have ideas, that have different ways of solving their problems and their community problems.
What we do first of all is define with enterprises, municipality, NGOs, different issues. For example, how to produce beverages with less water, regarding one of the SDGs, regarding water.
Or security regarding delinquency in a municipality.
We raise these issues on the open innovation platform. And people from all of Latin America apply their solutions. It's like an innovation contest.
The thing is, we provide them not only resources which are the prizes to some of them, not all of them. But also connection.
When I say the opportunities are not equally distributed in population, what I'm saying is that, if you have a fancy surname in Latin America, if you know someone that knows someone, maybe you can have a unicorn startup, you can have resources. You can have different ways of implementing what you are dreaming of. But if you haven't, the way, it's pretty difficult.
So what we are trying, for example, the problem you are trying to solve in your small town, connect them to a municipality that can finance them on a larger scale. We believe this is an R & D department. When you have complex problems you have to have distributed solutions. You can't have one silver bullet that would solve this problem. In this case, 1.5 million people thinking on how they can solve it from different small spaces like in their neighbourhoods to bigger spaces, for example. Loans to micro entrepreneurs or different insurances to agricultures, et cetera, et cetera.
What we do is we support this triple impact solutions, if they can be in a social or environmental way but having this economic competence, so we can make sure if they have a good and healthy business, the impact can be out of sustainable, so that is more or less what we do. We are based in Chile. We started in Chile but now cover all Latin America countries because of the digital nature of our business, of our platform. That let us reach people very far away, not only in the big cities where we used to see this social startups.
I don't know, Peter, if that was clear or not.
>> PETER BRUCK: (Off microphone)
>> MATIAS: Sorry, I don't hear you.
>> PETER BRUCK: I want to make sure I understand you right. You said a number of interesting things for everybody in this conversation.
One is you have an innovation contest for solutions which are having a local impact. And you are looking at the triple impact, the social impact, the environmental impact and the economic impact. And people who go through your process of the sociallab are actually getting from you the connection capital, which they need in order to have better traction with municipalities, with other communities or with people who can institutionally implement what they want to do.
Is that approximately correct?
>> MATIAS ROJAS: Yes, it is Peter. And just to emphasize one of the points you made, we distribute money. We don't have money, we don't have like a big bag of money. But we get where the demand is, for example, a municipality that is eager to buy, to implement, to finance a solution, and that money isn't ours, we just channel is to the correct entrepreneur, so that makes us like a distributed network. It doesn't depend on me, but the more connections we make, the better the impact we generate.
>> PETER BRUCK: Okay, I'm looking in the room here. I'm seeing there are a lot of faces very eager to think about this. One of the faces very eager to think and talk about is India, Osama Mansa and he wants to use this fishbowl session to speak right away. Do you have a microphone? Yes. Osama is working in India with the digital empowerment foundation.
What questions or comments do you have what Matias said about SocialLab?
>> OSAMA: Thank you, Peter has been watching us for 20 years and development of digital. I would say the biggest challenge to digital in the last 20 years is real relevance whether it is social or not. Whether it's really bottom-up or not. We all adopted digital from the perspective it is environment friendly, efficient and all that. But after 20 years, it is very clear that the way social media is actually creating havoc in the social society.
Technology over powering our life is also environmentally challenging us. And in many, many ways, this small little communication system, like here we are sitting here and look at these wires. Look at how many wires are here. The machines are here to communicate. It looks like they are more over powering than our human intelligence, you know? The beauty of the World Summit Award I would say, who is doing great work in these challenges, you know. Can we identify them? Can we adopt them? India is always in the middle of these. We have the highest level of IT, as you know. We export a lot of I.T., use a lot of I.T. but we also have the highest number of poverty and unconnectedness.
Therefore the examples we bring from there, how frugal can technology and information system we can adopt. I would like to leave the message it's important that all of us, all of you, who are looking at digital innovations, look at the World Summit Award in a manner for thousands of innovations in our database can be influential to be adopted by you and contributed by you. And to be criticized by you. And see how we can adapt it in the next 20 years.
>> PETER BRUCK: This is not a discussion on what Matias said, but it was a public relations effort. Thank you very much.
If you open this booklet we have distributed to you, you can see on pages 10 and 11, you can see a description of the projects which we are presenting. You can see a description of SocialLab and what Matias has presented. If you want to Google it later on, you can do that.
Are you ready to hear another example? If I don't hear you speak, I will not call up the next example. Can you please say loudly, yes!
Great. Can you say it in Japanese?
Hi!
Tiffany, how are you?
>> TIFFANY TONG: Very good, thank you. How are you?
>> PETER BRUCK: Good. Where are you?
>> TIFFANY TONG: Nepal. In Kathmandu.
>> PETER BRUCK: You have an early morning, I guess?
>> TIFFANY TONG: Yes, early morning, so I appreciate it.
>> PETER BRUCK: Thank you for talking to us. You live also in other places in Nepal. Where do you live and work from usually also?
>> TIFFANY TONG: That's correct. Our company is headquartered in Singapore and mainly operating in Nepal and expanding to other countries.
>> PETER BRUCK: You can e everybody in the room and online, actually solutions which WSA is selecting as best practice examples are global solutions, the way Matias talked about and also Osama. Global solutions for very concrete local and community problems. What is the community problem which you are dealing with the solution alloy.
>> TIFFANY TONG: Thank you. I agree with what Matias said, opportunity is not equally distributed in the world.
We are a Fintech company focused on social impact by helping informal sector micro entrepreneurs access financing so they can build their solutions and build their businesses so they can provide close last-mile services to customers closest to them.
What we do, our technology helps monitor how loans are being used and repaid, so that the lenders that have more trust to lend to these micro entrepreneurs. Right now a lot of micro entrepreneurs don't have traditional requirements for financing, necessity don't have collateral or credit histories, so most lenders don't want to lend to them. And they can't access a right level of capital for them to grow. What our technology does, it provides more monitoring automatically through the technology so that the investors have more trust and they can see what is happening with their loans. So they want to work with these types of entrepreneurs more.
What we are doing in Nepal in the last five years, we built up different sectors and different value chains that we work with. So for example, we work in electric vehicles and work in agriculture. Electric vehicles we work with electric mini busses and e-scooters and e-vans and agriculture, work with dairy and coffee and small grocery stores, using our technology to trace how the financing is beg used and repaid so the lenders can lend to them.
How this happens for us is similar to mobile money. We don't use an app because talking about digital divides, not everyone has a smartphone and even if they have a smartphone, often they don't have mobile internet, right? So we use SMS so everyone with a simple phone, without mobile internet can use our technology. They get the loan through the mobile SMS and they can spend it at vendors related to their loan purpose. For example, electric vehicle loan can only buy their business inputs from electric vehicle vendors or training institutions. So, and make sure that the loan is being used that way. In terms of repayment, we work with the people who buy the products. We work in coffee and we work with coffee traders that pay the entrepreneurs in digitally so we can trace data and income and trace ability to repay every day their loans so it makes almost a savings happen. Through technology we are able to provide these realtime monitoring. And what we really found is that the biggest digital divide in terms of financing really digital divide of data. So now in the financial sector, everyone is moving towards data. If you are coming from a background where this data isn't historically here or you don't have physical assets, or you don't even have mobile phone records, this is going to be increasingly hard for you to get any types of loans.
That's why we built our technology so you can really create new types of data. And you can prove your ability as an entrepreneur through how you use the loan, so you can buildup your pipeline and buildup your credit score and build up your credit histories so that going forward you won't be left behind.
We often think of our technology as a way to merge into this highway of digital financial information, right? So it's a way to connect to how the financial sector is moving towards. Thank you.
>> PETER BRUCK: That's really wonderful what you are describing. You are describing something which many people are not even seeing yet that the credit history which you have is actually something which is data-based and when you are not having those data you are actually excluded from it.
Matias can I bring you in? In which way is that an issue also, not just in countries like Nepal but also in the countries which you cover with the SocialLab?
>> MATIAS ROJAS: Thank you, Peter. I believe when we are talking about access to resources, meaning money or data or information, what I can see now, just the famous example of ChatGPT, someone who uses technology in a correct way can access whatever resources the world can bring. And I'm not talking about only base of the pyramid because that's more extreme case. For example, we can use SMS or different ways of communication. I'm talking about what we call in Latin America, the middle class. Which is also starting to see a huge division in opportunities. Not only opportunities for them, for their families to have better income, et cetera. But also for them to generate local impact in their communities. So we have, we see these people that use technology in, for example, knowing how to prompt correctly in ChatGPT makes the difference. And if you don't even know how to do that, how are we supposed to have solve examples of climate change. I don't know if I answered --
>> PETER BRUCK: No you didn't answer the question, but that's okay. You were saying that data configuration and how to handle data, especially when you want to input it into an artificial intelligence engine like ChatGPT needs certain skills. That's a fair point.
Financing, Gloria, maybe you want to get into. Gloria, you are from Tanzania, but you are working in other places as well. Where are you these days?
>> Gloria: Currently live in Saudi Arabia, at the moment. And you can clearly see the distinction in terms of access. Living in Saudi Arabia and also seeing and living in Tanzania. I develop, can I talk about Africa --
>> PETER BRUCK: If you want to make the bridge between micro financing and loan credit to African Queens, yes. But the bridge is, for everybody in this room, we are looking at different issues in terms of digital divides, okay? One of them, what Matias was saying, showing us, how do you innovate when you are having an innovative product or idea and you go through the innovation contest and you are then channeled into the system of the SocialLab. What Aloi did and Tiffany showed you what are the hurdles and bottlenecks in order for you to get financing, both in terms of credit history but also financing she is using for digital loans, SMS's. That's low technology, low bandwidth.
What Gloria will talk about, a feminist issue but a global issue in terms of identity recognition. Is that right?
>> GLORIA: Absolutely. Yes.
>> PETER BRUCK: Take it away, you have five minutes.
>> My name is Gloria Mangi, I developed African Queens digital project. I was in Ghana creating a programme. I was surrounded by about 20-25 other young African women who were doing phenomenal things around Africa. Everything from on the ground work in terms of law, in terms of healthcare, and broadcast. And so, my background is in journalism. One of the things that you had to do at the end of this programme is develop a project. I didn't want to develop just any other project and create something that has already been done but I wanted to bridge what my passion was, women and journalism and also how I'm telling African women's stories as an African woman myself. That was something I noticed wasn't being done. We have a lot of people telling African stories but not enough Africans telling our own stories and on top of that we don't have platforms where they can tell their own stories created by Africans. This was an issue I had seen, like a light bulb moment, okay this is something I can do. I want to share these womens stories on the ground as a point to inspire, and motivate and also as a way to highlight, Africa isn't just about poverty. Africa isn't just about the lack, which it does exist, but there's more to our story. So through this, African Queens project came to be. And started telling different African women stories on the radio, website creation, through podcasting. Doing a couple workshops and then World Summit Awards I submitted the project and they recognised the social and digital impact it had, especially at that time. And then through that, actually really propelled the project, you know, in a larger scheme, larger world scheme.
So just being able to highlight these women's stories, highlight the paths and also connect that to younger women was something that I thought was really relevant and pertinent at that time and still do think, and this was a discussion I was having with Professor Peter about the fact there are now more projects that sort of mirror what is happening. But it still kind of takes out from the context, is it still African people telling these stories authentically and also telling them realistically.
>> PETER BRUCK: Thank you very much, Gloria, for this description of how to address the digital divide. You won the World Summit Award how long ago?
>> Gloria: You are revealing my age. About ten years ago.
>> PETER BRUCK: Now that you are a mature teen, have you heard this notion, mature teen? ( chuckles )
There's been a number of digital revolutions in between.
Looking at the people in this room, if you had been starting off with this idea today, how would you do it differently than what you were doing ten years ago?
>> Gloria: Absolutely. That's a great question. At that time, this is a conversation I see becoming dominant within this space about the use of A.I.
But also the use of different social media apps.
So at the time I created African Queens project I had used Word Press and different blogging tools and built a website which of course cost money and different tools and didn't have as much of a reach as I would have liked for the target audience of who I really wanted to hear the stories. Yes I was reaching people even outside of Africa, this is where the digital divide is highlighted. Because when you talk about usage versus coverage, especially in Africa, those are two issues that we see, especially in Tanzania.
So for example, I could be living in a rural area in mount Kilimanjaro I could have a mobile phone but the coverage doesn't cover me, so how do I access the information? In terms of the usage, I may have the coverage but I don't even have the tools or the means to actually utilize and access that information.
So now there are different types of projects and different means and platforms that are trying to bridge that divide and that is something that I would definitely want to implement, even now within my project. How can I bridge that divide so those people living in the rural areas can access, what Tiffany was saying the use of SMS. Is there a way to send SMS updates so women can read about, this is what is happening in our area. This is what women and girls are doing over here. These are the opportunities we are seeing in this area.
So having those different platforms that can bridge those gaps are very important.
>> PETER BRUCK: You are talking about now, the technology access divides. If I look in the room here, does anybody here in the room, 45 people, 40 people here have an issue of technology access?
I would say no, right?
But in terms of your own access, who of you is accessing a social media platform, can you just raise your hand if you are on a social media platform?
I think it's almost everybody, right?
Now the question for you, you started African Queens project with a website and looking for Word Press template and things like this, who are the buyers of social media today for having something like an African Queen's project. Let me say it differently. How would you strategize an influencer?
>> Gloria: See, the term influencer has a negative connotation in my eyes. The moment you think of social media influencer, you think of the models influencing you to buy a certain product. You see the word ad over there. You think they are trying to sell me something. As opposed to being, suppose to being something like you trying to highlight and sort of expose the issue that's are going on. And I think this is where my heart as a journalist lies, because everyone wants to call themselves a journalist. And everyone wants to say yes. I work in the media because they have a social media platform. But then you have issues about verifying the information, verifying if what is happening or being said, is it actually factual? So influencers don't necessarily have to do that. So I don't know if my goal is to be an influencer, per se, but definitely to create authentic platforms where the information being told there can be seen as something that is a authentic true and verifiable.
>> PETER BRUCK: Important for this fishbowl session. Anybody want to say something? You can come and introduce yourself, come and sit.
>> My name is Alicia from UP (?) nation. I want to ask about being a social media influencer, thinking about the algorithms that come through from the social media applications. It's very interesting I still struggle to get information that is diverse, news that is diverse, other kinds of access to information, broader than what is being pushed towards me.
So changing platforms how do you think that would look in response to your, you know, now changing the way you would have approached things?
>> Gloria: Absolutely.
>> PETER BRUCK: Why don't you stay here, Alicia, we could have a back and forth you may have a follow-up question. Unless someone sits in the chair here.
>> Gloria: That's a good point about the algorithm. The way they are pushing trying to get more ads and sponsors and collect more data. Not necessarily in terms of the target audience in regards to, okay, I'm a Tanzenian, I have information about Tanzania, I want to reach maybe the United States of America or Europe, how can I do that?
So I think in regards to your question, I think maybe trying to create other platforms that are not influenced by major corporations that have their own agendas would be maybe one of the key things to look at instead.
Having your own app for example, if you wanted to see what I was doing versus just going onto Instagram or Facebook, I heard about African Queens project, which is another thing, how do you hear about African Queens project, but I will talk about the app and go back to that. By creating this app so people have access to this information.
But the key thing is how do you hear about the project itself. I think that's where conversations like this is important. This is where ambassadorship is important. If you hear about this, another network hears about this, now they can push that in their area, through their own algorithms so people can see that, and know, this is where I can get a link to the project. Does that make sense?
>> Yes. (Off microphone)
How would I get that information on African Queens unless I come to these kind of forums and platforms.
>> Gloria: Right it's a huge digital divide you highlighted. A challenge I face myself with regard to people know about African Queens project or know what is happening. Not just my own project but what other people are doing in the continent that could be a of relevance to somebody maybe somewhere else. Maybe even in Chile.
>> PETER BRUCK: Would that be a good point to ask if people here in the room. Who is able to translate what Gloria is saying actually in their own circumstances and their own lives? Are you able to create your own app? Can you raise your hand who is able to do an app?
I'm technologically too stupid for this. But Gloria, are you able to do an app?
>> Gloria: Absolutely not. But that being said, I think --
>> PETER BRUCK: So whom do you need for the app?
>> Gloria: You will need a tech expert.
>> PETER BRUCK: I see a lot of tech experts here, female and male. Here you are. What app would you create? So many apps, okay.
Depends. What technology would you use for creating the app? You have to go to the microphone, please. You have to go to the microphone, otherwise the people online can't hear you, and that's not fair. That's creating a digital divide.
>> First of all I'm Ibrahim from Nigeria, national development agency working in Japan. You have so many options to develop an app. One of the things now, one of our priorities, privacy, security. So there are some certain algorithm if you want to develop a strong and transparent application. You need to use. So for me, I usually use a web app, I use Java script. (?)
>> Gloria: How long does it usually take to develop an app that fits into those requirements and criteria in terms of security, transparency?
>> There are different providers. There are some that are just log-ins. Which I prefer that for the third party to protect your app. Because nowadays there are some hackers, more smarter than developers. That's why you see IT guys, we encourage them to try to also go into psychology to think how the innovators think. How the hackers think, ahead of any kind of new innovation. I come across a solution which is similar to ChatGPT, which is to my greatest surprise very effective and efficient. I said these guys developed a solution which we never knew before.
>> PETER BRUCK: Say this again so everybody in the room understands? What example are you giving?
>> The name of the site, ABOKI.AI
>> PETER BRUCK: Aboki.Ai.
>> Gloria: Is this by a Nigerian.
>> PETER BRUCK: We see a coalition to create a very smart solution. Good learning.
>> I use this opportunity to, okay.
>> PETER BRUCK: You can speak another two minutes to use this opportunity. But you have to convince Alicia what you are saying is interesting.
>> So actually, I have interest in the Tiffany, she mention something because it is one of our challenges in Africa. Africa we are blessed with so many potential (?) like she said. We have assets, huge assets. But the thing is how to utilize them. There is a digital divide gap, a huge gap. Like in my country, the population of Nigeria where over 220 million Nigerians, over 70% of them are youth. Without empowering those kind of youth what do you think will happen? And they have the skills.
>> PETER BRUCK: What is your question for Tiffany?
>> How to create management -- how to manage their -- in terms of financing, giving out loans. Because retrieving it back is very difficult for us in Africa. So I would love to know the concept.
>> PETER BRUCK: Tiffany, do you hear what Ibrahim is saying?
>> TIFFANY TONG: Yes, I do. Thank you for your question.
>> PETER BRUCK: What would be the answer to Ibrahim's question. I'm asking Ibrahim to sit down, in the fish bowl next to Alicia. Very good. Thank you very much, Ibrahim. Tiffany, please? Go ahead.
>> TIFFANY TONG: Yes. In terms of risk management, definitely it's a huge problem. We manage one using technology creating new weighs of creating data to have more realtime monitoring. The other is through human relationships. Using technology to build networks that are able to help monitor these loans. For example, entrepreneurship organizations or farmer cooperatives are an integral part of our technology to help manage these loans at a grassroots levels. We found only technology doesn't work, we need to use technology to build local networks and that's how we monitor our loans.
>> PETER BRUCK: I think that's a very sensible solution. I see Ibrahim is nodding energetically. Is that a good answer for you?
>> Ibrahim: Yes.
>> PETER BRUCK: Why don't we stay with good practice examples from Africa regarding interesting digital divide. When we look at Tanzania and Nigeria, I also want to look at Gambia. And you are here with WSA for many, many years. You said you have an intervention where you want to talk about (?)
Can you use the microphone?
>> Yes, is it on?
>> PETER BRUCK: Yes, it's on. Go ahead.
>> Thank you. Before I talk about inno vex, I'm working from Juba in South Sudan for UNVP just setting up innovation pods in certain universities to deploy innovation, among African faculty and students.
One of the things, one in the University of Juba in South Sudan that has opened after one that was started last year.
What we have been trying to do, when people look at South Sudan, you think, okay, Africa, younger states. But through the peace -- community project they approached us of the UNDP. There are 30,000 students. We started creating an app that will be collecting information on cattle Grazing. One thing that has cost community problems that brings rift in south saw Sudan has been cattle, they are moving to grazing land. We have developed and testing, and it was all done by sheep. we did it in August and hope to launch it soon. Just a moment Peter. One thing being a WSA expert for over a decade now for Gambia, we have global health, IGH.Gm. They do what you call wellness and wills. This was set up by a pharmacologist. You have a lot of people in the village, how do you get them medicine. And he has created this platform whereby they just pay money and the medicine from Gambia is delivered to their families. Wellness and wills. It's really helped people in the country that have problem with diabetes and hypertension. I would encourage you to see what IGH.Gm has done. Thank you.
>> PETER BRUCK: Thank you very much, Pontselv (?). You are showing something very important in the room here. What WSA is looking at is technology, innovations which are solutions to local problems. And the interesting thing here is innovation comes out of a personal recognition of a need.
So what you are saying here for instance, how do I get the medicine if I'm living abroad to my family at home in Gambia. What Gloria was talking about was how do we shift the issue of how storytelling works about women who do incredible things in Africa. What Tiffany was talking about is how do you really change the micro economics for people who have an entrepreneurial engagement and entrepreneurial vision and entrepreneurial drive but they don't have the financial resources?
And what Matias was talking about is really interesting in terms of how do you basically scale social digital innovation?
His answer with the social app is how do you bring this out in terms of connecting people with institutions and funders in terms of applications?
I see we have another five or eight minutes. Is there anybody in the room -- sorry?
>> This is Matias. Thank you, Peter. I just want to connect the last thing you said regarding distribution of resources to what Gloria was telling about the algorithms and use of technology.
What I believe personally is that, well, algorithms are not bad or good or neutral as any technology, but we always have to ask ourselves what is the business model behind the algorithm? Because basically what the business model for social networks right now, I don't know how to say it more politically correct but to wash our minds. To control our will, algorithms maybe sometimes understand better what we want than ourselves.
Their business model is to change the way we think, to make us do things that we were never conscious.
So when we take that thought to social innovators, what we should always ask is where is money coming from, what is their business model? Because sooner or later, we could have the same effect that this social network, for example, Facebook just wanted to connect people and meet other people, but we all know what it has been. So that's a question for every innovator in the room or listening. Where the business model is, maybe in early stage you could have grants, you could have subsidies from the government but what happens when you scale? And that can change the effect of your innovation, regarding where money is coming from. I just wanted to leave that thought, maybe it's useful for someone.
>> PETER BRUCK: I think it's very important what you addressed. That is a huge issue, everybody in the room should know about. And WSA does not give you an answer on this. How do you scale social innovation beyond the single project? The answer is not from WSA, but it is by us, by you, everybody joining in and giving attention to these issues. And also seeing what kind of mixed financing strategies which we can have. What Pontsile was talking about, there's somebody coming from United Nations, enormous social needs. But as Ibrahim said, enormous African talents, I mean 30,000 students at the university in Juba is just incredible, you know?
And then you apply it in terms of what is the social need for cattle grazing and people having real issues and even you know, having wars around that issue, if you aren't having a proper solution on this.
So that is something which is really important to see how you are scaling, understand social need to having implemented a workable solution, and to scale it to the various different kind of applications and territories.
We have an online community and an online moderator. I recognise the online moderator Nora. She is sitting in Austria, no actually in Luxembourg, I guess. Nora, is there any input from the online community which you want to share before we go into the closing statements?
>> NORA WOLLOCH: No, comments.
>> PETER BRUCK: There are no comments. Do you have any comments?
>> NORA WOLLOCH: No, I would give the last points to the speakers on the floor.
>> PETER BRUCK: Okay, very good. Thank you very much for getting up at 3:00 in the morning for this. I understand this is a real challenge.
Tiffany, do you want to have final closing thoughts on how to address digital divides through what you have learned in this conversation now? Please, go ahead.
>> TIFFANY TONG: Yes, definitely. It's really interesting, all the way from how to tell better stories and how people can access those stories, right, to financing, to understanding how different communities can come together.
I think that's really the key point about financing for social innovation is also really important. What I think is we have to change the stories of what social innovations are and what type of impact they can make and how they grow. Because right now, honestly as a startup most of the models we are told are related to Silicon Valley-type tech companies. We are told you have to grow like this and have impact like this or you will never succeed. I think that narrative how social innovation happens and what models are out there needs to be wider spread. Otherwise people would go in with a different idea or follow the advice of different types of companies and make mistakes growing their own social innovation.
I really appreciate this forum to share more of these stories and learn more from each other what model koz be successful and how we create these for the future instead of using the old growth models.
>> PETER BRUCK: Thank you very much. This is what WSA is all about to change the narrative but even the framework we look at innovation, digital innovation, in terms of social impact.
Matias, do you have any additional thoughts building on what Tiffany just said now, or something which you had as an interesting thought lightning hitting you while we are talking?
>> MATIAS: Yes, thank you, Peter. A couple of things. I totally agree with Tiffany. In this zebra movement, I don't know if the room is aware of it but counter weight of unicorn, the zebra startup movement, maybe afterwards the people in the room can investigate a little bit more about it. But it's very interesting how we change our priorities.
Second, I just want to encourage everybody who has needs not only to altruistickly help others, but to unleash their talent in the smaller way possible to start with something, push any idea, with limit -- meaning fail fast and fail cheap is a way to start from nothing. Encourage everybody who has a concern, and surely have the talent to put it in paper and then build something, et cetera. So thank you very much for this space. I like to think I take home too from the conversation.
>> PETER BRUCK: Thank you very much, Matias. I just want for everybody in the room, also rephrase what you said.
The idea is, Alicia and Ibrahim, for instance, to counteract and contrast the unicorn story with the story of a different animal and it's the zebra. And the zebra is actually a feminist approach toward using social innovation narratives for scaling. That's what Matias was talking about. If you want to look it up and Google it. It's like zebra, like the animal, some of you in Africa know it better than people in Austria, because we know only snow foxes.
Last word to you, Gloria. What did you learn from this conversation here? From what Pontsilet said and Ibrahim and Alicia and what everyone was sharing.
>> Gloria: I think forums like these are so important. We get to hear what other people are doing in different countries and you also get a chance to see, is this something maybe I can incorporate in my own country. Is this something I can partner with somebody instead of recreating something, they already have the infrastructure, resources and tools. It's just a matter of building that bridge. For example, Ibrahim coming and asking the question to Tiffany about what she is doing in terms of credit micro financing which is a big issue in Tanzania and the rest of Africa. But instead of having people rebuild these processes bring Tiffany to Tanzania and Nigeria and teach or create something over there. This for me is something I'm very passionate about, bridging, telling people's stories. About connecting different people from different walks of life. And having a core or a core vision in what it is we are trying to do. Through African Queens project and what they are doing, incredible, highlighting all these different influencers, even though that's not my favourite word, what they are doing across the world. But also in terms of the social impact of that as well.
>> PETER BRUCK: That's a wonderful way of ending this session. There's a technical term for what Gloria is talking about. And we talk about this in WSA as social franchising. sharing the model of what you do in Nepal in a way you can implement it in Nigeria or Tanzania. And what you do in South Sudan shared with people in Mali, it might be there's a similar problem there and with people in Argentina. And was done in Chile to share it with people in the Arab world or in Japan. That is what WSA is all about, building this kind of platform to connect people with each other. And to connect for impact.
Please take these brochures, stay connected. Thank you, Alicia for your questions and interventions. Thank you very much Ibrahim, for yours. Thank you, Nora Wolloch in Luxembourg for putting on the online presentation. And regards and all the people to Kathmandu and Nepal to you, Tiffany. And thank you very much, Matias for joining from Santiago. All the best to you, I wish you a happy day. Stay safe. Be peaceful. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. Bye-bye.